Dancing in Fear: The Path to Extreme Connection and Self-Awareness

Intro Announcer: 00:00:00

Your voice is your superpower. Use it. Welcome to Ignite My Voice Becoming unstoppable. Powered by Ignite Voice, Inc. The podcast where voice meets purpose and stories ignite change.

Deep conversations with amazing guests, storytellers, speakers and change makers.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:00:21

Hey, I got it. You don't! Who wants to be in the room with that person?

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:00:25

Today's episode goes straight to the heart of what it means to feel good in your own shoes.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:00:31

And if you know me, you know I love my shoes. But in this case, this is about confidence by actually owning who you are and what you bring to the table.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:00:42

Now we're joined by Barry Forward. He's the executive coach and founder of Reboot Forward. Barry brings such a grounded approach to growth, leadership, and charisma.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:00:52

And we're talking about dancing, too, but not in our shoes. This is about dancing in fear.

Barry offers a perspective that fear, when we're willing to look at it, can actually point us towards what's keeping us stuck and what we're ready to outgrow.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:01:08

And Barry, someone who isn't afraid to challenge the old fake it till you make it mantra. We put that concept upside down. Actually. This is a counterculture advice.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:01:18

So this conversation really centers around self awareness, knowing what you're great at, what you're still learning, extreme ownership, empathy, connection.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:01:28

And how your childhood impacts the stories you tell yourself in the present. Barry talks about doing the work and how true content confidence is built on solid ground.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:01:37

There's this powerful idea in this episode. I am responsible for how I feel. Woven throughout is a thread of vulnerability and the concept of acknowledging failure, being.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:01:50

Willing to acknowledge weakness and to accept that failure is a part of the process. We talk about how we present ourselves to the world and who we surround ourselves with. Be in the room with good people, and Barry is one.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:02:03

Lean in with us and Barry Forward. We're Cat and Cat, and this is you, but better.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:02:10

That's a pretty horrifying notion for an introvert.

It's a horrifying notion that all eyes will turn on you and all eyes are on you, which, you know, kind of precipitates all our nervousness that we have around it, which is a lot of fear.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:02:28

Self defeating, I guess, huh?

Guest Barry Forward: 00:02:30

No, completely self defeating. So when you look at that, like, what is that that people look to from you? I mean, there's so many different things.

It could be subject matter, expectation, the buildup before it happens. But when I walk into the room and everybody goes, oh, Barry arrived, what is it that I brought to the room?

And I would argue that it is that little piece of me at my best self, me at my full on leaning in to who I am in that moment. I'm not trying to impress you, I'm not trying to impress everybody else in the room. I just know I deserve to be there.

And I've got something I want to share and I think it's worthy.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:03:22

You believe you have the right to speak, to have your ideas, to share.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:03:29

The right, the belief.

I just believe that what I have, it's so good speakers when you people who you turn to, they don't ask for permission, they don't ask if it's okay, they just show up.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:03:44

They are who they are. How do you get there though? I mean that sounds so easy. I walk into the room, I am who I am, I own it. I know what I have to say.

I know that what I have to say is important. How do you get there when you're an introvert?

Guest Barry Forward: 00:03:57

Self awareness. It starts with self awareness.

If you do not know and haven't looked at yourself hard and long and got into some deep dark places and looked at what drives you, you're going to difficulty in those moments. It's really get familiar with all the things that are going on with you and what you're about.

Show up so as that introvert and you might say to yourself and looking at me and going that's not an introvert. I'd say I'm what do they call it? Amnivert.

I'm sort of on the mix of between but it's horrifying to me to that whole notion that someone's going to be the room's going to be looking at me. That's the last thing I want. What I do want is to feel good in my shoes. I want to feel good that I've got the thing. I'm talking about the topic.

The content if you will, is worthy of sharing. Now how do I get to that is I know myself well and I know what I'm good at and I know what I'm not so good at. I know what I know and I don't know.

I don't try to know something, something I don't know anything about. So I spend time learning my subject matter. I become an expert in whatever it is that I'm talking about. I learn the topic.

I'm not speaking from a foundation of making this up. What's the line? Fake it till you make it. You can't fake this. You can get on stage and perform as Cleopatra or something.

But you can't go in there and create a completely false version of yourself without being on loose footing. And I'm sorry, I'm going on to the place of the personal. Personally, we need to be there. What do others see? Me in that moment, me owning the space.

Me just taking it and saying, here I am.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:06:07

You know, what comes to mind? Actually listening to conversation for a minute. I had a flashback. The movie Broadcast News. Remember the movie Broadcast News? William Hurt.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:06:16

William Hurt, yes.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:06:17

And Albert Brooks. And William Hurt is the anchor who's not the brightest bulb in the box, but he owns a space.

He doesn't consider if he's misrepresenting something or getting a word wrong or he just. He just does it right. Blusters, just bullies his way through.

And Albert Brooks is a writer who one day, when William Hurd is sick, gets the chance to go into the chair. And he's a really smart guy and he knows his stuff inside out, but he worries. He's thinking so fast that he's worried that.

Are people understanding me correctly? Did I get that perfect verb? Do I look funny? He's got all this going on while he's trying to be the anchor.

Unlike William Hurd, he just collapses on camera. But he's an ology. He's an expert in that area. He's the writer who knows it all.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:07:19

Belief. He doesn't believe he deserves to be in that place. He doesn't believe he's looking across at his news anchor colleague going, that guy's got it all.

He's comparing himself to that person. I mean, I would say that given the context, if we took.

And I'm going to cut the names of the actors off, but the Albert Brooks character, the news anchor, whoever the news anchor was. William Hurt. William Hurt. William Hurt. And we took him into, I don't know, a presentation out of the newsroom. He's not there.

He's now now in front of a bunch of kids, and he's got to deliver a message to a bunch of kids. He's not going to be as sure of himself. He'll have to go back into this alternate mode of him being that anchor, that person.

He's going to have to come and be that person. So is he all there? Is he being his full and true self? I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure. Now, the Albert Brooks character, his thing was belief.

And belief is something we really got to believe. We deserve that opportunity. We deserve to be in front of the room. We deserve to Be where we are with other people looking at us.

Whether it's speech, it's a party that we're at, whether it's, you know, just some random encounter, we have to believe. And often it's those little belief systems that we have in our head talking to us and saying, I don't know, you could never be like that guy.

I go back to childhood, for me, I just bring it. It's these little stories that are in the back of our mind that drive us to not believe that we can be the newscaster that could deliver the news.

Back in my day, I mean, you know, the business that I've been in and came to, and here I am as a coach, I started grade two, had this wonderful scenario that we did a class play in grade two. And I had one line, one line in this show. And it was, it was that, you know, it's great too. And I'll never forget, I had.

I couldn't deliver this line the life of me. It was the inflection, it was everything. I couldn't get it. And the teacher laughed at me.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:10:00

Oh, no.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:10:01

Oh no.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:10:02

Poor little Barry.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:10:04

Exactly. Poor little bear. But it's, it's not so much poor little Barry. It was, it was great too. Yeah.

The fact of that was it was just an inconsequential moment in my life, but I locked in on that.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:10:19

We're talking it all these years later, years later.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:10:22

But it's. But it's those kind of things is that when. That's where the self awareness, the inner critic.

And in those moments, can you talk about the story that you're telling yourself? Where did it originate from? Where did it come from? My case of this, I had stage.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:10:42

Fright forever and so many people have.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:10:45

That I went on to become an on air person. I was brutal because of that.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:10:54

Now if I can interject for a second, that story is still prominent. It comes to mind, like instantly. You paint the detail and color perfectly.

But you've moved past it, like you've accepted it, you can see it, you've moved past or what, because it hasn't gone away.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:11:10

So this is recognizing it. This is the self awareness piece.

You go back and you find out these little things you're telling yourself over the years, whatever the situation is, and you go and dissect it and put it into, bring it in to 20, whatever year we're in. 20, 25, 26. Right. We want to put some facts around that. What really happened to that story when I was, you know, six years old or Seven years old.

And if I put the facts around it, I can start to go, oh, I was six or seven. I really nothing.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:11:47

I didn't know what I was doing.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:11:48

I didn't know I was doing the kids. The teacher might have been laughing at somebody else. I don't know. I don't have the facts of that. So I'm building the story.

So even just kind of talking about it. And I've talked about this story many times.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:12:02

You feel better now, don't you?

Guest Barry Forward: 00:12:03

I feel really good. Let's go. But it's. It's you.

Somehow we've got to go back and we find ourselves in places of fear where we're not allowing ourselves to show up 100% as our best self, whatever that might be. And we've got to take the time to analyze it and look back and see what's driving us.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:12:28

Fear is such a block.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:12:30

Well, it's interesting because you and I, Kat and I talk a lot about those fear moments and the frontal cortex going offline and you're in fight or flight. Right. Can't think clear and all of that.

It strikes me right now that what you're doing is you're going back and reliving it and kind of putting your frontal cortex back online the way it never was, and then thinking, wait a second, I can forgive myself. And really thinking your way through it.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:12:57

And changing your personal narrative along the.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:13:00

Lines, forgive yourself based on facts. Because the facts are, I was six or seven. I was a little kid, and the teacher was just doing her best at the time.

The kids were just six or seven who were my friends. They didn't know what we're doing. So those are facts. And then I can look at it really kind of from an objective eye and go, hmm, that's really.

Oh, yeah, that's interesting. It was a fun event. It was. And I don't hang on to it. Doing the work to look inward. And many people just are expecting.

And I'd say this is thousands of people that I've worked with. They. It's. We're just hoping for a miracle from outside, right?

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:13:52

Something's going to hit me.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:13:53

It's going to happen. It's going to happen.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:13:55

You're going to give me the answer to me.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:13:57

I've gone and taken this.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:13:59

Barry, I've paid you. You just make it happen, okay?

Guest Barry Forward: 00:14:02

Oh, let me tell you. Thank you. But it's. It is when we can take. There's a book. What's his name, Jocko Wilnock. He has a book Called extreme ownership. Extreme.

I don't know if I got his last name right, but he's a famous Navy seal. But it's extreme ownership. Forget the book. Just think of the concept.

I am responsible for how I feel right now, how I'm choosing to feel, challenging, choosing to remember, I'm choosing to go back in time. If I can take responsibility for that and say, okay, that's my part of it. Sure, lots of stuff happens. We get injured.

There's negative people in our life and there's things that happen that are really traumatic. I'm not suggesting those don't happen. But first, if we can say my part of it right now, this is what I'm wrestling with.

These are the facts of what I'm wrestling with.

I can now start to go outside and look and put myself in those cognitive behavioral therapy scenarios where I reintroduce myself to some, get on stage and do my first speech or something. But if I haven't done the work, I'll be right back there after the second, third, fourth, fifth speech.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:15:18

Doesn't that bring up a concept of vulnerability?

Allowing yourself to be vulnerable to, again, looking at yourself, to the things that are dark in your life, the things that have negatively influenced who you are today. So vulnerability helps you address those challenges.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:15:40

Would you say, well, vulnerability gets exactly what you said. It's such an important piece of it. It's about a negative connotation that I'm going to let you and everybody else know what's going on with me.

No, this is being vulnerable to yourself, accepting weakness as a possibility, accepting failure as a possibility, and then being good to yourself, forgiving yourself for having, oh, you know, I'm not really that good at that. Right. That's okay, vulnerable. But we get in the public sphere, often vulnerability is seen as weakness or something.

And that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about looking at yourself, truly authenticity, knowing yourself well and allowing yourself to be really in those feelings.

If you want to cry, cry. If you want to laugh, laugh. I don't want to be second guessing whether I cry or laugh.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:16:41

Mm.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:16:41

I think of, think of years ago, that deodorant ad, they ran a series and there was like a female stand up comedian and she's doing her stuff and she raises her arm and you see sweat. Everybody sees the sweat. She feels really vulnerable. She puts her arms down and crawls away.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:16:58

Right?

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:16:59

But then she uses the good deodorant. When she puts up, it's not sweaty, right? So we're talking about wearing our sweat with pride, aren't we?

Guest Barry Forward: 00:17:08

We're just. I don't care. See, again, there's a couple of things at play because other people play a part in our getting out there. We don't just show up in.

I'm trying to put up something where, you know, you don't want to be completely out there because it's distracting to people. Other people who are just trying to watch the play or, you know, do work or something. That's because that's.

Often we get, hey, I can be myself and I can. No, we, we don't need that quite today. We're glad that you're there, but we don't need that today.

So again, self awareness is, and this is my little horse to stand on is executive presence or leadership presence, whatever you want to call it. Presence is this ability to understand where others are. Right?

So if we walk into a room and we look and, and all eyes are on us, we know the people who are out there. I come, we're good. We've got a group of people. I've done a little bit of a sense of who that group is.

I'm a leader and I walk into a room and I know what's going on in Kevin's world, just notionally. I get a sense of them. I've got compassion for them.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:18:26

I don't want to know what's going on in Kevin's world. That worries me. But isn't that empathy isn't what you're describing as.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:18:36

Totally, but in a situational scenario. So you walk into a room. So we began this with this whole discussion.

If you walk into a room and all eyes turn to you, the question is, what do you do in that moment? Do you own the space? Do you actually. And I don't mean you protect it. You just. You're there.

Hey, here I am coming up to tell you about this great thing I'm going to talk to you about, or I want to come over and tell you a joke or whatever it is, say hello, I own that space. But I do it in a way that I know that, you know, Samantha, who is in the room is also there with me. So you can call that empathy.

You can call that as just understanding what I'm walking into and having a relation with those people. Because we're not talking to just, I don't know, walls, we're talking to people.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:19:31

I'm hearing a lot about connection. I'm hearing your purpose is reaching out to others, not just there for you. You Own the space.

Right, but you own the space and you're trying to involve others, you're trying to connect with others and you need empathy to do that. Right? Need to be aware of.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:19:50

What's the point if you don't? Well, if you just. If just one way. So you're just, you're hoping that people are going to read your book or they're gonna.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:19:58

But that brings up something else, a little topic I wanted to run with for a second. And that is something that I read that you wrote about the double edged sword of charisma, about the dangers of charisma.

And that's probably somebody that feels they have it and have no empathy, isn't it?

Guest Barry Forward: 00:20:18

Exactly. This whole idea that you have it and somebody else doesn't and you're good with that. Hey, bold. Hey, I got it. You don't just.

Who wants to be in the room with that person? Who wants to be in the room with that person? I might listen to them for a bit because they're interesting, kind of quirky or something.

I, I was telling you before we got on here about this, back in the days, my broadcast days, I worked with this absolute turkey of a human. That's the only way I can describe this individual. You knew of this individual? Yes, he. Oh, I just said it was a he.

This individual was, you know, on all. You walk into the room and he would command a room. He would walk in and people would go, there he is, there he is. He's.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:21:19

Here's Brian.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:21:20

There's Brian.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:21:22

You picked the name, didn't you?

Guest Barry Forward: 00:21:24

This was not Brian. I'm talking about somebody else.

Anyway, he would walk in and you would want, you know, you'd listen, maybe get a few ideas and then the next thing you wanted to do was get out of the room. You didn't want anything to do with him. So what was he missing? He was missing the empathy for others.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:21:48

It makes me think about the funny place the world seems to be in right now, though.

Now I'm talking politically, I'm talking about the populist that seems to rise to power in a lot of places right now and doesn't have the interests of your average person in mind at all. Yet they're populist, yet people seem to follow them.

Is my perception of politically where we are in a lot of places in the world right now, that's dangerous. There's a big danger there.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:22:24

I say danger for that leader because eventually the swords are going to come out and knives will be brought, a revolution will happen. If that leader was empathetic, cared about the world doesn't mean that everything that leader is going to propose is going to be visionaries.

We don't all like what visionaries have. We don't, you know, someone who's, you know, think, I've got great ideas. We don't like it, we don't.

That, oh my gosh, this artificial intelligence is for the birds, blah, blah, whatever it might be. However, they can do that with empathy and they can do that with understanding of those people who are not bought into the message.

So that's the danger I see in the current. I mean, it's happening all over the world right now. And it's, it's short term.

It might accomplish a few short term goals, but I don't think long term, it will last, which is good.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:23:22

That sounds positive to me. But there can be a lot of damage done in the short term between now and whenever that happens. Can you give us a tool?

Can we not waste so much time, protect ourselves being enthralled by these populace? Is there something there?

Guest Barry Forward: 00:23:43

I think you just summed it up is look inward, take a breath, breathe. Turn off the noise that's coming from someone who isn't connecting. Turn it off. Be informed, but turn off the noise.

A lot of what we're hearing is just good, you know, theatrics, and people are listening to it and developing their stories about what's going on.

Like they're creating the stories as opposed to going, putting your feet in the ground, taking a few good breaths, getting grounded, centered, and letting yourself really feel that what I call the life that we've all got in us, the source that will allow us to plow through this. We're just. The noise is off the charts right now. You just turn it on, turn it off.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:24:43

I never thought about it quite that way. And maybe that noise by those people is intentional. Maybe they know what they're doing.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:24:49

But we have more power as individuals to turn it off. There's a choice there.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:24:54

I suppose. It comes back to where our conversation started, though. That power lies in knowing yourself, being quiet and paying attention to yourself.

And like you said, Barry, some people aren't ready for that or don't know how to open that door, I guess. Right.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:25:13

You know, the risk of talking about a particular person right now. But let's just imagine if we.

Someone who's really vocal on what they're trying to get across, they're just, they're screaming and they're taking no prisoners. And what could be more Disheartening to them is when someone's just sitting there looking at them. Nice job.

But didn't connect with me and standing up and leaving the room. And that's why I believe that connection. If we're looking at ourselves, we're trying to figure out how do we show up best?

We show up best as ourself grounded. We've thought about. We're not all perfect. No one's perfect.

We should look at those little nasty bits that we've got and take a really hard look at them and figure out what's formulating this little thing that just came up today and see if I can work on it, you know, work on it. It's worthy. Everybody's worthy of that work. We just want the easy button, though.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:26:26

Emotional intelligence is the word that comes to mind for that.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:26:31

Yeah. We could spend a lot of time talking about EQ and the benefits of emotional people with good emotional intelligence. It's a learned skill.

You learn how to do it, you can. We're sitting here, I'm. You're asking me questions, and both of you are listening. I can choose to stop talking and listen.

Part of, you know, the process, listening to others, hearing what's happening, seeing if I can get a sense. Okay, maybe I'm not a good listener. I haven't been a good listener in my life. Is I okay? What do I do?

That means I'm going to take 10 seconds when I'm talking to people between my words and theirs. That's hard, but it'll teach you a lot.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:27:18

I'm hearing a lot about personal empowerment, though. That is hopeful. It seems so many of us right now have a lack of hope and a lack of feeling we have any power over where all this is going.

But what I hear is that the only way we're going to save the world is ourselves. It's one person at a time. Is personal reflection will save the world? No. Wow.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:27:49

I'm saved. I want to save the world.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:27:53

You did it.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:27:54

You have.

Guest Barry Forward: 00:27:55

I truly believe that what you said there. We have the power to make a choice, to decide. It's that classic Viktor Frankl quote, right? The stimulus and response. You know, you.

You know, because in a, you know, a Holocaust victim, right? It's like, oh, my gosh, you know, and chose to respond a certain way. We have that power today. You know, you might say, well, it's.

I don't want to sit back. I don't want to put my head in the sand. I don't know what I'm Saying be informed, be informed.

But like your stories in your past when you go back and pick up the go to facts, get some pieces that you can, you know, that you rely on and then give yourself a break, forgive yourself, take a take, take some air, breathe, go for a walk, you know, talk to some good people. Surround yourself with good people and talk to them. This is, this is, you know, this world is so tough.

It's not easy and it's not easy and people are and it's scary. But give yourself, I mean everybody. I work with thousands of people. That's the only way I can describe it.

I'm not to say something grandiose that I'm work with thousands of people.

I've just talked to a lot of people and I go right now, I talk all across Canada, I talk all across the US I talk all across certain extent, Europe, South America.

Every conversation are good people, everyone in their own way and we just have to remind ourselves of that, that, that they're generally people are out to be good and that's again to take it to the I walk into a room and all heads turn if I know that, that all good people there, all the people there are just trying to make connection, just trying to feed their family, try to hang out and have a good laugh or occasional, you know, that'll help me when I'm in that room because I won't be there to try to bowl them over. I'll be there to talk amongst friends.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:30:19

Lean in full on, feel good in your shoes. Whatever size, shape or sparkle.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:30:26

EQ isn't just a buzzword, it's your toolkit. Self awareness, self management, social smarts and how you handle relationships. It's about connection to yourself and to others.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:30:39

Emotional intelligence is yours. You're in charge of your thoughts, your feels and your freakouts.

Co-Host Kevin Ribble: 00:30:47

You get to choose how you think, feel and show up. So breathe, be real and find your tribe. They're out there.

Co-Host Kat Stewart: 00:30:56

Speak from the heart, sparkle from the soul. That's charisma. And join our movement. Ignitemyvoice.com ignite my voice.

Intro Announcer: 00:31:07

Becoming unstoppable. Your voice is your superpower. Use it.